GREAT GURUS CLASH OVER
TWO PERSPECTIVES ON THE ABSOLUTE

 

Marsh Birds In A Landscape
by Lucien-Levy Dhurmer

 

Love and Blessings Sat Chit Anand Shanti-Shanti-Shanti OM

 

SWAMI G: Other planes fall away ......

 

 

(Editor: But the physical plane has not fallen away to you. That is what I am trying to say. Why do you restrict your communication, your conversations, only with those who have bodies?)

 

 

SWAMI G: Really, am I communicating with a body? Do you know what has fallen away here and what has not? Do you know what takes place in this consciousness ? The answer is no - no - and again no ...... the physical plane is neither real nor unreal it is the substance of dreams ..... Consciousness is not limited to bodies ...... the fact that you distinguish it is and are stuck in planes and divisions belays your words about having traversed the dual realms ...... re-read the following passage about " physical and material are the illusions of separation" .....

 

RASA: In other words, the same thing shallow people do.

 

 

SWAMI G: That is your judgementalism ..... until This consciousness has been entered don't be so quick to make such shallow pronouncements..... shallow is that which fears facing their own pain ----

 

 

(Editor: I have a strong suspicion that one who has the Divine Stigmata knows what pain is!)

 

 

SWAMI G: Show the stigmata ...... where is it ? those of the stigmata have wounds that are apparent ..... so you know pain ...... is it being enjoyed ? it is driving your life ..... the pain of Rasa ..... it has become a part of your identity .... it drives this Woman is god ideation ....... this comes out of a pain that has not been resolved ...... Christ came to free mankind He did not come to enslave them ......

 

SWAMI G: In facing it one dives deep into the waters of no mans land ...... the bondages are cut ...... then the Unknown and Unknowable is entered ... Reality shifts ----- the world one was engaging falls away and GOD appears as not something separate but rather the ONLY Reality ------ it IS ------ the world is only an echo ...... a by-product of it's nature ...... Shakti is the infinite changing transient which can be played in endlessly ...... it can be either Liberating or can bring greater delusion .... most are in the delusion stage .....

 

 

RASA: Shallow people, people of the world and flesh, are concerned only with the physical/material. They know nothing of the other side of the veil, or spiritual matters.

 

 

SWAMI G: Really ? there are a lot of shallow people that use spiritual matters as a way of escape ..... as a way to cover over and run away from the very suffering that may hold a key to final liberation ...... yes it is very very enticing to chase after psychic things ..... to attempt to go to other realms etc....... but what candle does any of this hold compared to Resting in that Divine Essence and Absolute which is Peace and the True Pearl of Great Price ..... ? Where is the restless need of chasing realms or others then ?

 

 

(Editor: What are we talking about here? Do visions of Reality, Truth and God Face to Face as seen by saints and mystics represent negative things to Swami? Was Bl. Mary of Piazza less than perfect? St. Dominic, St. Anthony of Padua, St. Francis, St. Gertrude the Great, St. Catherine of Sienna, and many more, all great visionaries, were in a lower state? Books are filled with their visions, locutions and communications beyond the veil....this did not limit them...they were One with God... these visions were what they shared with Humanity!)

 

 

SWAMI G: Right they were one With God ....... still within a dual experience ...... hindu saints also have had numerous of these visions of God ....... in fact here is what was the experience of Poonjaji ...... since a young boy he would see and play with Krishna ..... when he went to see Sri Ramana ---- Ramana was not impressed ...... his answer to this was since Krishna comes and goes it is not the Unchanging Ever Present Reality ..... at this Krishna faded away and Poonjaji entered into the Non-Dual Reality that no longer contains the limitational forms appearances ...... he entered and then Lived the Reality that God is not the divisionary forms that come and go ...... these are aides to those who have not transcended the boundaries and constructs of mind that keep self and other in play ...... God is ONE ...... yes you can envision realms - god's - goddesses infinitum ........ this is the play of mind ..... of Duality ...... it is endless ....... but THAT which is beyond and is EVER UNBORN blows the divisionary play out of the water .......... it is no longer needed as an aide or support .......

 

RASA: By what you have said to me, you are living as they live, communicating only with people by the physical voice, words, letters, and so forth. There is no mental, spiritual, extraordinary or supernatural communication going on. I do not understand why this would be so, as every saint I have studied had supernormal abilities. Will you say you are above all the saints I have studied, and left them behind?

 

 

SWAMI G: What is a saint ? there is only what is ...... Yes things come up as needed for others ...... others have dreams where this form appears .... Yes what is felt by others is known here ...... but what you term supernatural communication happens only as a matter of course here ... it does not see lines of division of self versus other ..... it is just the screen of consciousness ..... it simply take place...

 

 

RASA: 9. You did say you have similarity and succession with Ramana Maharshi. Could you please explain in what way/s you are like him?

 

 

SWAMI G: No attachments to mind ..... no attachments to aversions or desires..... there is only this moment ---

 

RASA: 10. You say you have no desires, and so, do you mean across the board?

 

 

SWAMI G: No driving desires ..... no feeling of lack .....

 

 

RASA: Do you have no spiritual desires?

 

 

SWAMI G: When Absolute IS what is there to desire spiritually ?

 

 

RASA: Do you have no desires to save souls from darkness?

 

 

SWAMI G: This happens as a matter of course .... it is not a driving desire ..... they are saved when they have had enough of the darkness .....

 

 

RASA: Do you have or have not any goals for your future and the future of your ministry?

 

 

SWAMI G: No ---- the universe will play out as it will ....

 

 

RASA: How do you see God and your relationship with God? Are you God? Is God you? I am asking this respectfully.

 

 

SWAMI G: There is no relationship with God ....... there is only God .... no me and God ..... the me is an echo of form ..... God or THIS is the Ground of all Being .....

 

 

RASA: Do you ever see God in the dualistic way, as many saints have chosen to do? There are, as you know, many saints who fathom the nondualistic God but in their day-to-day existence, they choose to look at God as separate.

 

 

SWAMI G: No ---- it is at once all ......

 

 

RASA: Myself I have indeed seen God face to face and have perfect perception of nondualism, whatever you may think. But I do choose to sometimes look at images of say, Our Lady of Guadalupe and meditate on Her and worship Her. I know there is a perfect Oneness, yet I choose to do this. And yet, you will automatically demote such people to a lower place - correct?

 

 

SWAMI G: Why is there this -- whatever you may think ? by your own words there is a persona an "I" that has views and is in relationship with ....... this is Duality ..... yes it can be a dance and a harmony ------ but it is duality non the less .... it has nothing to do with demoting anyone to a lower place ...... it is simply what the consciousness is at the moment ...... where it is at ..... the judgments in this are all your own......

 

 

(Editor: I did not judge myself. I was reiterating what Swami said before - that nondualism was Nirvakalpa, the highest state, but dualism or praying to God as separate, worshipping God as separate, is Sarvikalpa, a lower state. This is on audio tape.)

 

 

SWAMI G: This is where your offense is ....... that you think you are being judged ...... it isn't judgment ...... it isn't a put down ........ but what you have described and continue to describe shows over and over again that you are still within the realm of duality ........ seeing God face to face is still Dual ..... when there is ONE there is no face to see ...... I stand by the audio interview ..... and say it again ..... when the holy of holies is entered ONLY God is there ...... not you AND God ...... it is only THIS ...... and if the world ends in a heartbeat still THIS IS ....... and this IS is the Essence and Fullness of ALL Life ...... therefore the suffering persona blows out and is no more........ it ends ...... this is the true Rebirth ....... Transition into that ONE Essence which is Untouched by the divisionary world of seen versus unseen ---- good versus bad etc...... Yes an echo self of forms is seen like Sunlight the One Light is seen to subdivide into many colors when going through the prism ...... God is like this ...... it is One ..... you are at this point entranced by all the colors and have not yet gone beyond the subdivisions and into the Light from which they stem from ...... the colors are fine........ they can be wonderful ...... but once the Light from which they emerge is Known the colors are also known for what they are ........ God is the Light beyond all lights ....... visions etc. are part of the subdivided Light ...... go beyond it to the Source .....

 

 

RASA: Such people are Sarvikalpa, not Nirvakalpa. They are dualistic rather than nondualistic - even if they make that choice on a day to day level?

 

SWAMI G: If it is a choice then it is within a dynamic of self and God.... in Non duality there is no choice ........ it simply IS ......

 

 

RASA: Even Ramakrishna? He was not the only one who enjoyed God in a nondualistic way but chose to worship God in images.

 

 

SWAMI G: There was an immersion in the play of God ......... beyond suffering

 

 

(Editor: Read the life of Ramakrishna and there was LOTS of suffering - so bad he was in AGONY!)

 

 

SWAMI G: Yes and when there was an "Me" caught within a life story of praying to God as being separate from God this ones life was also great suffering ....... for years ..... tortured suffering ....... but it ENDS ...... this is the Good News ...... there IS Liberation ...... then there is LILA or the (Play of God) This is possible or do you think that Christ's words and suffering in tasting the death once and for all was all bunk ? Christ spoke of Liberation ..... since you have to bring everything around to christianity and do not have the ears to hear it any other way and take offense when not couched according to Christ and Christian Saints etc ...... and by the way Since you are a staunch follower of Christ ...... He never said God our Mother ....... it was always God the Father ...... it is interesting how you fly in the face of this and Yet will use Christ and the Saints as a support to uphold and attempt to create your ongoing platform of saving the world by the way of Rasa....... Rasa's one way - the only way - ........ God is not limited to Christianity .... God has NO Limitations ....... the limitations are due to mans mind being continually stuck into patterns that have to fit within their life's social structures and confines ...... God is ONE it is mankind that has turned this ONE into many in order to be able to live with the idea of God ..... Just as your turning God into a female idea ...... God is not male ---- nor female ..... God is beyond all limitational structuring .......

 

SWAMI G: ..... he was also ONE as Kali ....... the self for him was only an echo ---- it was not a seeming solid substance as with most that say they are in communication with God .....

 

 

(Editor: No soul who is proficient or realized, in their right mind, sees God as a solid substance or Being! Give us a break!)

 

 

SWAMI G: You have been getting a break ...... God IS Being ..... you aren't reading the sentence right ........ it says that Rama Krishna was not a solid self but remained an Echo ....... so take a deep breath and relax ..... you are so focused on saving the world and getting out Your message that things are not being read in a clear light ...... you have taken offence at something that was not said to offend you..... therefore your communications have gone from being open to hearing to rather Looking for a way to dismiss and put down Non-dual in Favor of what you know which is a path that is locked into duality with realms - saints - sinners - God - devil - demons and hierarchy's ...... there is nothing wrong in this but it is not compatible with Understanding the Non-Dual Reality of Consciousness ...... it is far different from what you term as being One With God ..... in Non-dual Consciousness there is no With that remains ...... the with is an ephemeral echo in the fabric of time......

 

Love - Light - Great Peace & IS